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Cameras, micro lenses and photo stacking

Discussion in 'Everything Else Orchid' started by Jgrimm1055, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    I was recently talking about cameras in another thread. I'm looking for a starter camera for photographing my orchids. My cell phone does a semi decent job sometimes but I grow a lot of smaller Pleurothallids. There are times I'll be sitting for an hour just trying to get a decent shot. It just doesn't happen becasue the flowers are so small and it's a blur. I noticed trying to take pictures of a white or almost all white flower is extremely difficult as well. Any recommendations on a decent cheaper starter camera that can accommodate taking pictures of small to micro flowers or just taking nice pictures in general. I usually take a black sheet set it up on a chair or something. I use a different light source then the flash from my phone. This works OK on larger or medium flowers. Just looking to improve my photos.
     
  2. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    I am considering upgrading to video capability, and selling my Canon Rebel XSi (aka 450D) body for about $150. Use the rest of your budget for a decent macro lens.
     
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  3. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Jonathan, I think we have all gone through this frustration. Kelly (TheKellylove) bought a macro attachment for her phone that has produced nice close-ups. Hopefully she will respond to your question and let us know of her experiences to date. Link to her thread.

    When you say "a decent cheaper starter camera" that can mean different things to different people. For under $100 you can get a point-and-shoot camera that will give you decent close-up results. I used one of these for many years for photographing my orchids. However, it still took practice, patience and lots of photos to get one I was happy with.

    If you go the DSLR route which will give you lots of control and interchangeable lenses ... you can get a decent camera body for under $500 then purchase the lens or lenses that you want. The lenses can be where the real expense hits you. Note: The "Kit" packages are OK but the lens is generally on the cheap end of the spectrum and may not give you the close-up quality or ability that you are looking for. I ended up buying a starter DSLR body (Canon EOS Ti5) but got some lenses better than standard kit quality. My macro lens cost more than the camera body. My outfit is still considered "starter" and I spent almost $2000.

    From my personal experience, a local camera store can compete with prices of big box or on-line prices because they are hoping you will come back to buy gizmos, accessories, classes and get enlargements made. Go into your local store and try some of the various price ranges.

    Photo stacking is fun and rewarding if you are willing to put in the time. It still isn't a fool proof or easy process but the rewards can be amazing.

    Final comment... having a great camera doesn't automatically mean great photos. It still takes practice for lighting, angles, settings, color balance and post processing.

    Good luck to you and have fun.
     
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  4. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    For the compact, Olympus TG-3, TG-4, TG-5 are pretty nice. If you go with used or refurbished TG-3, you can get it <$200. All of these can do automatic focus stacking in camera. But with macro mode of most compact cameras, you have to put the camera to almost touching distance (not a lot of working distance).

    For DSLR, Nikon, Sony, or Cannon might be a safe option. Since you are buying into the system and you'll be locked into the system, you want to choose the system which fill your needs. However, for mostly web-type photos, I would say Olympus E-M10 Mk 2 is the best deal for macro work. If you can wait for their refurbished sale, it is $299. The amazing 60mm macro can be as low as $400 (occasionally $350) new (not at this moment, though). 30mm macro is $199. It is very nice, and I use it when I need the maximum magnification. This 30mm has the highest magnification among the available macro lenses (except the specialized Cannon MP-E). But if I have to have only one, I would definitely go with 60mm, because you don't have to be very close to the subject (easy to adjust the framing). I also have a bulky Nikon system, including their wonderful 105mm macro, but I rarely use them (other than when I need good performance TTL speed light).

    E-M10 Mark 2 has a build-in capacity to do focus bracketing. With Nikon (maybe Cannon, too), you need a computer and software for the bracketing. There is some free software for this purpose (gPhoto2, gPhoto - Doc :: Remote controlling cameras). There is also some free, open-source stacking software, too. Focus Stacking Macro Photos (Enfuse)

    In addition, you'll probably need a tripod for focus racketing.

    Also, I would buy used cameras and lens. KEH.com is a good place to start.

    I mentioned a little bit about Olympus focus stacking in this blog post (link).
     
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  5. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    Thank you so much everyone this really helps! Now I know where to start! =) Great advice!
     
  6. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Great discussion! Photography is one thing I will never be great at, but I'm trying to improve a little incrementally. I purchased an Olympus Tough TG-5 compact about a year ago for outdoor all weather use and also because it had the macro/microscope mode. I found if I was patient, I could get a reasonable close up of even the smallest of Lepanthes.

    I was then unhappy with color in my photos and realized that lighting had so much to do with the quality. I haven't mastered that but try to use a background when time allows and take photos on days with diffuse natural light.

    I think a big help in the last few months was when Naoki mentioned focus stacking in one or more threads and I no had understanding of it. I researched (read the manual ) and saw that my camera could do both focus stacking and bracketing and it seems to have really helped, but only when patient and using a tripod. Quite often, I only have a few minutes to take a quick snap shot and the focus stacking or bracketing doesn't really work with that amount of instability, so I just go with the straight macro mode and hope I get one shot reasonably in focus.

    One other feature that could be useful is that this camera has a screw on LED light ring for extreme close ups which could be quite good for identification/dissection photos, but may change the colors a bit as compared to natural light.
     
  7. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    That's another thing I was wondering. How to make sure you getting the true colors of the orchid your photographing. Like I said I only have my cell phone. I don't use the flash but a different light source. It's a daylight CFL 6500k. Is that a good choice to make sure I get the true colors.
     
  8. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jonathan, I know nothing about the colors, but noted that Naoki's link above had discussion about lighting which I will study at some point. I show two recent pictures of a Masdevallia and note the color differences:
     
  9. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, forgot the pictures (Masdevallia bottae).

    The color on the first picture is closer to what I see and the color on the second was how most of the pictures turned out. Natural, diffuse light (overcast) with only difference being magnification and orientation to the light.

    image.jpeg

    image.jpeg
     
  10. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    Those are so beautiful plants!
     
  11. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jonathan! But it's actually the same plant, photos less than a minute apart...just not really sure why the color is so different?
     
  12. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    Oh yes I know it's the same plant. I'm talking about all your plants I can see in the picture =)
     
  13. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    That's another thing I need to learn is using the right background
     
  14. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    I bought black sheets that I drape over a chair or I put it over the mirror and sink and take pictures in the bathroom lol. For some reason I get the best pictures in there. I will post one or two to show you how they came out. There not that good becasue I only use my cell phone but I think there ok. 20170111_165557.jpg 20161231_111259.jpg
     
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  15. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Chuck, very nice grow area! The color of M. bottie looks ok to me. But are you thinking the contrast between the yellow center and white part is weaker in the second photo because there is less light (a bit of underexposure for the flower) around the flower face?

    With any cameras, I think that we need to do some post processing to see what we perceive (our eyes/brains are quite amazing).

    I recently bought a "vintage" DSLR (Nikon D1 from 1999), and it is very difficult to adjust the color. So I bought ColorChecker Passport (http://xritephoto.com/colorchecker-passport-photo ) to help with the adjustment. It can make a custom processing profile (of raw files) for the given camera, lens (and light). Basically, you take a photo of this color palette under the same light condition. Then there is a Lightroom plug-in (or stand-alone program) which will make a profile (I'm getting sick of Adobe attitude, so I probably will migrate to some other program, though). When I use Color Checker with modern cameras, it does seem to improve a little bit (I need to use it a bit more extensively), but lots of the modern cameras/post-processing programs seem to do well most of the time without it. With ColroChecker, you need to use RAW instead of JPEG, though.

    Looks good, Jonathan! If you want to play with lighting, you might want to play with a couple reflectors. You can use white papers, or aluminum foil attached to a cardboard. Also diffusers are very useful, too, when you want to make less dramatic images. Something like tracing paper might work.

    There are quite a few resources about lighting, but I thought that this video explains well about the basic artificial lighting:
     
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  16. Jgrimm1055

    Jgrimm1055 Jonathan loves Masdevallias!

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    Thank you so much super helpful! Very excited about all the information I getting with this thread!
     
  17. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Jonathan...your cellphone pictures are still pretty good!
     
  18. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Naoki, you are always very helpful. I will take a look at these color programs as is is a bit annoying at times. Of course I have to find something that will work on a Mac. I guess I always thought about touching up color as cheating, but if the camera isn't getting it right, I guess it's fair.
     
  19. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    If you are shooting in RAW format, color correction is much easier. Also it is easy to compare the shift in light from one picture to another and correct that.
     
  20. Chuck-NH

    Chuck-NH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I checked and my camera does have the RAW option.