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Epidendrum schizoclinandrium

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by naoki, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    This is a recent purchase (Redland 2016) from Orquideas Amazonica, and it is the first bloom at my place. I was looking for information about this species, but there isn't much. There are some confusing aspects of several related species, and I can't positively confirm the ID. But it does look similar to the photos of this species; e.g, Parsons and Gerritsen. 2013. A Compendium of Miniature Orchid Species Volume 1, and Zelenko & Bermudez 2009 Orchid Species of Peru. It's making only a couple flowers, but I decided to write down what I learned in my Orchid Borealis blog post (link).

    Does anyone know a place where I can buy Icones Orchidacearum Peruviarum (the original description of this species is in there)? In this web page, I can see contact info, and AOS bookstore is one of them. But I didn't find it listed in AOS.

    [​IMG]
    Epidendrum schizoclinandrium
    on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    Epidendrum schizoclinandrium column
    on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    Epidendrum schizoclinandrium plant
    on Flickr
     
  2. AnonYMouse

    AnonYMouse aka Ree, the not-so-stealthy lurker

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    WoW. Just WOW!

    Sorry, can't help with your inquiry.
     
  3. Chris.c147

    Chris.c147 Well-Known Member

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  4. carl

    carl Active Member

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    What about an inter-library loan?
     
  5. Timothy C Choltco

    Timothy C Choltco New Member

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  6. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Chris for the search!

    Inter-library loan is a possibility, but I thought that it might be good to have if it is not too expensive.

    Timothy, thank you for the link, I saw it, but I wanted to see the text side, too.
     
  7. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, I was comparing yours to my E. schlechterianum. Well, one thing leads to another... Look at Icones Orchidacearum Peruviarum plate 982 for schechterianum and note the bristle tip on the leaves and also the serrations on the lip and sepals. If schizoclinandrium has those characteristics it doesn't identify them in the drawing. Yours seems to have the bristles and the serrations. I have only compared these 2 species so some of the others in this group may have similar characteristics.
    Here is my schlechterianum.
     
  8. Timothy C Choltco

    Timothy C Choltco New Member

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    Click the link i posted. It's the drawing Kelly W. mentioned
     
  9. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Timothy and Kelly. I think Kelly was comparing plate 982 (E. schlechterianum) of "Icones Orchidacearum" Fascicle 9 (link) by Eric Hagster with E. schizoclinandrium of
    "Icones Orchidacearum Peruvianum" by Bennett and Christenson (Timothy's link). It is confusing! But you are right Hagster's illustration has serration. Does your have the serration? I have to take a closer look at this (and study Hagster's book). Between these two species, the column length seems to be quite different: long for E. schlecterianum, and short for E. schizoclinandrium. From the habitat, the former seems to be low elevation, warm grower, and the later seems to be high elevation cool grower. Are you growing yours warm, Kelly?
     
  10. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, the plant I have that is labelled as schlechterianum has the bristle tipped leaves and at least some serration on the lip and sepals. Mine is not currently in bloom so I am only going by my old photos. If you look closely at the first photo I posted (on link above) you can see these features.

    I hadn't noticed but there is a significant difference in column length between your plant (short column) and my plant (longer column). The two drawings are a little hard to compare since they are so stylistically different and the schlechterianum text does not give a length for the column.

    I am growing mine warm. Next time mine blooms I will be paying more attention to make sure it is correctly labelled.
     
  11. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Gregg. Somehow, both of them are plates 201-400. I'll keep looking.

    Kelly, I dissected my flower and added a couple more photos to my blog. The inside of this flower is quite interesting. The column is fused with lip, and all parts are so succulent. It was pretty difficult to do it at home, so they aren't good photos.

    Next time when yours flower, you should take a look at the column and sepal lengths (and maybe the pollinia shape). According to Hagster, what he considers as E. schlechterianum has much larger flower (sepal 18-20mm, column 10-14mm) than other related species. Mine is much smaller (column is 4mm). I just checked only the references which I can access now, but I wonder if yours is similar to E. gonzalez-tamayoi (fascicle 2, pl. 136). Yours have purple edged leaves, with the midrib sticking out quite a bit. Also, you can take a look at the shape of the side lobes of the column. When you trace from the "tip of the nose" toward the lip, yours seems to go down perpendicular to the column at first and then stretch parallel to the column. The illustration seems to show that in E. schlechterianum, the side lobe seems to stretch parallel to the column without going down perpendicular to the column. It is a bit difficult to describe in text, but you might want to take a look at the illustrations. Also the two illustrations show the difference in pollinium shape. You don't happen to know where yours are from, do you? Unfortunately, the locality info get lost most of the time in the orchid world.
     
  12. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks, Naoki. When mine blooms again I will do a dissection as well. The photos you posted of the plant parts are quite good I think. Certainly illustrative. It will be interesting to get some good measurements off mine.

    On my plant there isn't an origin on the tag so that isn't a clue. The E. gonzalez-tamayoi flower shape and proportions look similar to mine. The leaves on my plant are definitely heavily keeled and the edges are rolled under but not as severely as the plate 136 shows. I'll probably keep snooping around.
     
  13. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for helping me locate the book, and I found the complete set (800 plates) from Ingram's Better Orchid Books. In case others are looking for it.
     
  14. Mikhail kujawa

    Mikhail kujawa Well-Known Member

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    I love the way this is growing! Beautifully grown and well flowered!
     
  15. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, I took some quick photos of my E. schlechterianum with a metric ruler. It looks like the column on my plant is 2x longer (about 6+ mm) than on your plant (about 3 mm) as shown on your blog photos. My guess is that we both have correctly named plants.

    My flower is damaged from being dropped so the anther cap is dried and shrunken. The pollinia was still intact so I tried a selfing.

    There is another bud about to open so if I see anything different or diagnostic on the fresh flower I will post it here.

    Epidendrum schlechterianum top ruler-900.jpg Epidendrum schlechterianum portrait-900.jpg Epidendrum schlechterianum profile-900.jpg
     
  16. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    Check this link:IOSPE PHOTOS
    It is very helpful.
    Your plant could be any Nanodes type Epidendrum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  17. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Kelly, for the update! I haven't made much progress in understanding this group (I haven't opened Icones Orchidacearum Peruviarum alghtough I managed to get it). The columns is definitely longer, but don't you think that the flower size is about 1/2 of what it is supposed to be for E. schlechterianum (sepal 18-20mm)?
     
  18. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    This site is very helpful.
    Yours might just be a synonym of Epidendrum uleinanodes.
     
  19. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, to be honest I was so focused on comparing columns that I didn't read all of the description and didn't even pay attention to the dimensions of the sepals. You have a very good point. Also, the description says that schlechterianum has a 2-flowered inflorescence (so does schizoclinandrium). I don't recall ever seeing 2 flowers together on my plants. I'll keep digging.