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Epidendrum schizoclinandrium

Discussion in 'Orchid Species' started by naoki, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    Not all E. schlect's. are two flowered, many orchid ID sites say that they all do though for some reason.
     
  2. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    I checked the orchid ID site I always use (IOSPE PHOTOS) and this is Epidendrum schizoclinandrium.

    Btw, very nicly grown.
     
  3. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Hah... this older photo proved my earlier statement wrong. Mine does put out 2 flowers per inflorescence at least sometimes.
    [​IMG]
     
    tong tsu shi and Mikhail kujawa like this.
  4. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    Thats interesting.
    With yours, somtimes one, other times, two.
    Mine never has two.
    Maybe others always have two.
    So this is partilly right.⬆
     
  5. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    ISOPE is a great reference and I use it frequently. However, it also contains mistakes. It is NOT a taxonomic authority. To declare that you can identify that this is a particular species with only this reference is not sound.
     
  6. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    Thanks.
    Is there an absolute source?
     
  7. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Not any one in particular. The best thing is to go back to the original descriptions of the individual species. That is not always easy or possible. Some of these can be found using Google. Other times there are experts in a particular genus or related genera and they can be consulted if all other methods fail.
     
  8. tong tsu shi

    tong tsu shi my first word was Masdevallia

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    Thank you so much!
     
  9. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    Kelly, I went through relevant plates of Icones Orchidacearum to understand your plant.

    Following can be eliminated rather easily (the numbers in the parentheses are the fascicle and plate number in Hagsater's Icones Orchidacearum, link):

    * E. oxynanodes (3, 363): shapes of sepals and petals are more elongated. The biggest flower in this group.
    * E. uleinanodes (3, 392): clidandrium deeply fimbraiate. Basically it should look like the mustache is growing at the tip of the column.
    * E. congested (9, 921): the lip is heart-shaped. I don't think that your plant has a tip at the tip of the lip if you flatten it.
    * E. serruliferum (9, 986): the lip is heart shaped, and the point is more pronounced than E. congestum

    Now the followings are a bit more similar to yours. So you might want to focus on these.
    * E. gonzalez-tamayoi (2, 136): brilliant green leaves with purple margin, but the light intensity influence the purpleness. sepal 9-12.5mm. Almost always 2 green flowers. The apex of leaves bilobed and slightly jagged.
    * E. congestoides (9, 920) : glaucous green leaves. Blueish/grayish green, sepals 6-7mm (yours is 10mm). So it is probably not this species.
    * E. schlechterianum (9, 982): sepals 17-20mm.

    I haven't examined these in details:
    * E. schizoclinandrium: I don't think so.
    * E. longirepens: Here is the original description by Schweinfurth (link. Here is the paper which raised it to a species (link). The differences between this and E. schlecterianum are mainly vegetative. This species have long creeping rhizome and small leaves. The flower is smaller than typical E. schlechterianum. But some E. schlechterianum flowers are quite small.
    * E. neodiscolor: Original description (Nanodes discolor) is available in this link plate 1541 and the following page. But it doesn't give a detail. Hagsater consider it to be different from E. schlecterianum in this link. Check p. 217. But again, not enough detail, but it seems to imply the flower is smaller than E. schlechterianum??

    E. longirepens description is interesting. With lots of photos of E. longirepens, I don't particularly notice the long rhizomes. I guess it might be more obvious when you see E. longirepens and E. schlechterianum side-by-side, but I haven't seen them in my hands. But I wonder if what we call E. longirepens isn't correct. Also Schweinfurth was probably using a wider concept of E. schlechterianum than Hagsater since he mentions that there are smaller flower plant in E. schlechterianum.

    So I still don't know the ID, but my guess is that it is close to E. longirepens, E. neodiscolor (if you consider it is different from E. schlechterianum), small flowered E. schlechterianum, E. gonzales-tamayoi.

    Tong, Hagsater's Icones Orchidacearum (link above) is pretty good to study about this group.
     
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  10. Fumiaki Takahashi

    Fumiaki Takahashi miniature orchidaholic

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    Lovely plant!!!
     
  11. Fumiaki Takahashi

    Fumiaki Takahashi miniature orchidaholic

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    Very nicly grown as well.
     
  12. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, thank you for the detailed analysis. I am going to have to take some time to study what you have summarized. Thanks again.
     
  13. KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Naoki, here are more photos of my plant. I now believe mine to be E. congestoides due to the shape of the pollinia and the anther. The 4 pollinia (I didn't photograph) are equal in size and similar in shape, like circular pillows, as opposed to those of E. schlechterianum. The anther is entire at the top but fimbriate at the lower end. There are plenty of features that still confuse me but those two features helped me make up my mind.

    The leaf tips on my plant vary from tiny single bristles to minutely fimbriate.

    I gave up on trying to match the flower segment sizes to a particular species

    Epidendrum schlechterianum close lip.jpg Epidendrum schlechterianum plant-900.jpg Epidendrum schlechterianum close leaves-900.jpg
     
  14. naoki

    naoki Well-Known Member

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    I think that you are probably right. The photo of the anther cap clearly shows that it is not E. schlechterianum, which has quite elongated shape. I have forgotten about the details, but I took a look at Hagsater's Icones Orchidacearum (I'm glad I took a note in the message above). I compared E. congestoides and E. gonzalez-tamayoi. The anther cap looks similar to E. congestoides. Also look at the side lobes of the column. Yours has a big, and they have a bit of rectangular shape. E. gonzalez-tamoyoi has more rounded side lobes. Also the margin of the lip midlobe seems to hvae the look of E. congestoides, which is emphasized in the illustration. So I think E. congestoides seems to be the best match. Very cool that you figured it out!