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heating ideas for outdoor greenhouses

Discussion in 'Growing Areas' started by Seattle Steve, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    I live in Seattle and we don't have severe winters, but I am looking for ideas from experienced growers for heating. As I don't have any more room in my panel for another 240V pair of breakers, I have only a 120V feed for my 16' X 8' greenhouse. I am considering using a Williams Direct vented heater using a separate 9 gallon propane tank as a heat source. I have seen that this would be OK for orchids as it draws in air from outside and vents to the outside directly. However when I reviewed the installation sheet, it states not to use in trailer homes, or recrational vehicles. Is this due to fumes, CO, proximity to heat?

    I also would like to build a solar collector to supplement the heat. I have a lot of material left over from a convection hydronic heating system that had to be removed from a remodel project. The system used 3/4" copper with aluminum fins for the heater transfer boxes. Just a thought for fun.

    Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks!
     
  2. Sean Houtman

    Sean Houtman Active Member

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    If you are worried about that heater, you can always write the manufacturer to see what they think of using it in a greenhouse.
     
  3. ZWUM

    ZWUM Bulbophiliac Staff Member

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    Location:
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    Southern burner makes a non vented heater that works very well ( I have one ). It needs a fresh air intake and a small area of ventilation in the roof. If the heater you mentioned has both a fresh air intake and roof ventilation I'm sure it would work fine.
     
  4. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I also like the unvented Southern Burner. I've used them for decades and never had any problems with bud drop or any other problem. I know several people who went with their vented version and say that it is very awkward to relight the pilot and take up a lot of space. My greenhouses are not air tight so there is always enough air. They are also very easy to service should you have a problem.
     
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  5. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    Is this something you need to relight the pilot often? I thin I heard the same complaint on the Williams Direct, although it doesn't look bulky. I don't have a very airtight space presently either. Did you purchase directly from the manufacturer?
     
  6. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    It has a vent into the appliance and out. There is a greenhouse supply that sells them and recommends them for orchids. However when I contacted the seller, they never returned my call or email. Home Depot sells them for less and I wouldn't have to pay for shipping.
     
  7. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    If I water the pilot light, I have to relight it. I don't have any holes in my roofs, but there are enough little gaps here and there that I've never had any trouble. I buy them directly from the Southern Burner guy who gives really great service and is very helpful in diagnosing a problem. That being I let water fall on the on off valve for years and it sticks or when my handy man moved the heater it started to leak a little gas. Mine sit under the bench so they don't take up space, can't do that with the vented version. Here is the link: http://www.southernburner.com/. Call him.
     
  8. ZWUM

    ZWUM Bulbophiliac Staff Member

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    If the choice is heater X and southern burner, go with the southern burner. They're tough, don't rust, and are incredibly reliable. The only time I relight the pilot is once in the beginning of heating season, no point in letting it run during the summer, or if I accidentally spray it withe the hose. And just like Marni I've never had any issues with bud drop and the non vented model barely takes up space.
     
  9. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    Thanks, I'll give them a call. I guess I am surprised that the unvented causes no problem. It's good to hear from experience.
     
  10. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    Thanks for the feedback.
     
  11. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    Just to add further to the testimonials, my 16' x 8' gh is heated by an unvented southern burner. For the past two weeks or so we've had the coldest temps in several years (single digits/teens for lows). The gh has not dropped below about 55 degrees during this time. And I could easily turn the thermostat up and make it hotter. I've had no issues so far. I got lucky in that they are built just about 45 minutes away from my house so i could drive there and talk to the guy in person and get a in-person tutorial on setting it up. They're simple enough that that isn't even the biggest plus....it was loading it in my car and not having to pay for shipping! ;)

    The hardest part was buying a hole saw for my drill and making a hole in the gh wall near the heater and cramming a section of pvc through it. I believe they can be set up for either natural gas or propane.
     
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  12. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    My greenhouse is also 16' X 8' . I just orded one and was impressed by the service so far. The sales guy actually knew the technical questions without looking them up. I don't believe I will have any difficulties with installation. Any idea how much gast you are using for that temp? I have a LP version.
     
  13. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Steve, the sales guy is THE guy. The only person besides him who has answered the phone is most likely his wife.
     
  14. SpeciosaBlue84

    SpeciosaBlue84 New Member

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    I know this is an old thread, but can these unvented Southern Burners be used in a sunroom? Which is attached to my house, (concrete floors, lots of windows) & it can get a little too chilly... I could use my window-unit (Mitsubishi brand) fan or heater setting to draw in outside fresh air if need be... It just doesn't keep it warm enough in there when the temps get really low

    ...I lost a lot of orchids this past winter b/c I couldn't get/keep it warm enough out there (while having other things taking up 99% of my energy & time, which meant my orchids took a backseat), and apparently, it was the time of year that Lowe's & Home Depot stopped carrying space heaters to make room for their spring stuff :mad:
     
  15. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    I do the same thing, so no problem. Besides, time has given me experience with the unit. First, I would say determine your needs for heating. You can go to several sites that sell greenhouses, such as AFC Greenhouses, http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/heat-calc.shtml and calculate the heating needs of your growing area. This will take into consideration glazing and area volume. The Southern Burner will heat a fairly sizable area. Marni is in California and the temperature gradient between the outside temp and needed growing temp may not be that large or for any extended time. She said she doesn't have an area so well sealed. I put in an intake air supply next to the burner as advised, but there is still a small amount of gas odor to my nose. If you have a well sealed area or one that has air common to the house, you may need to have the vented unit. Also, given the cost of propane and tanks and fittings needed, it may be more cost effective to use electric heat. I didn't have enough breakers for another circuit, so a space heater eats up most of the power needs for my greenhouse and I opted for gas which needs no electrical. Fittings were a much bigger pain because I wanted an auto-changeover regulator and had to use extra fittings to get all the parts connected. I didn't want to worry about running out of gas from one tank at night or during cold weather. I have done some hydronic heating in my home interior, and that would be another option of heating.

    All depends on your needs, size of your wallet, and skills if you are installing it yourself. I will give you more specifics if you wish.
    Best wishes.
     
  16. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Steve, if you can smell ANY gas, you need to fix that. You may have a small leak somewhere. There should be absolutely no gas odor if things are working properly.
     
  17. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    I have checked all connections - twice. No bubbles. Because of concerns over the appearance of the pilot flame and the burner flame, I checked the feed pressure with a gas manometer - perfect feed pressure. I called Southern Burner and was informed that the pressure regulator had been reset to a different flame height and that mine was burning properly. I have no indication of any physical findings that there is a leak. It is possible that the odor I perceive is from the byproducts of fuel burned. It is not the same odor as that of unburnt propane. Burning fuel will always produce some form of hydrocarbons and other vapors from doing so. When the unit is not lit, there is absolutely no odor even though all the gas connections are the same and the line to the burner is on and with propane gas in it. I did check and verify that I had the correct regulator for propane fuel. I have spent considerable time in looking at any possibilities and will assume that the unit is working properly. Any other ideas?
     
  18. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I had a very faint odor at one point and there was a small leak under the heater. I am on natural gas. At the lab I use propane for the stoves and there is always a slight odor when I start or turn off the propane. That would make me crazy. Southern burner is really good at diagnosing a problem. Are you saying there is no odor when just the pilot is on?
     
  19. Seattle Steve

    Seattle Steve Member

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    I think if I call him one more time, he will run away. No odor when there is gas connected and pressurized, but no pilot lit. Therefore, no leaks prior to the regulator. Once the pilot is on, there is an odor of "gas heat" is the best I can describe it. Thus, I did the check on the line pressure from the regulator to verify that was correct and verified that the height of the flame was proper. If after the gas is distributed after the gas regulator into the pilot, then I don't know. I can't really check it at the pilot burner itself. However, I will check it out again later this fall and bring it to their attention for analysis. Yes, it annoys me.
     
  20. Sean Houtman

    Sean Houtman Active Member

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    I am familiar with the scent you describe. It is generally quite noticeable, but many people appear to be unable to detect it. As far as I know, it does not indicate poorly burning gas, which can produce ethylene.