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Lighting question

Discussion in 'Growing Areas' started by bseltzer, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    I have a 6 tube fixture for T5 HO 54 Watt lamps. Would this be adequate for orchids such as Dendrobiums, Cattleya or Bulbophyllums. I realize there are wide ranges of light requirements within Genera, but speaking in general terms. Maybe a better question might be what sorts of orchids might do well under such lighting assuming a nearby East facing window? Thanks.
     
  2. Annabellam

    Annabellam New Member

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    Dendrobiums need lots of light but not direct sunlight. A slightly shaded south window would be best so i think it'd be fine. I am not sure about the rest but i know once you start seeing yellow folliage on an orchid, means you are exposing it to too much light.
     
  3. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    That fixture will put out a LOT of light! You will be able to grow and bloom anything under it, even as a sole light source.

    I think your biggest concern will be not burning them!
     
  4. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Even Vanda's? I mean, if I do the math, we're talking about ~2500 fc with is about mid-range for most orchids I know about.

    Fortunately, I've got the fixture hung with an adjustable harness so I can raise & lower it as needed. Right now, I've got in hanging about 12 - 18" above the tops of my tallest plant, and at that height, I can feel just a hint of warmth on the back of a hand held just above the plants.
     
  5. carl

    carl Active Member

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    Keep in mind that artificial light output is constant. Natural lighting is not - it varies by time of day and by cloud cover. In general, somewhat less intensity in artificial light is more effective than natural. At peak natural intensity, the plants may be getting more than they can use, while at the evening and morning hours, less. With artificial, it's the same amount all the time. Consider it "integrated light intensity" - every hour, measure intensity, and add it all up, see which has the higher value...
     
  6. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Carl,

    You make a very good point. Area under a rectangle vs. under some ill defined curve. Your "integrated intensity" phrase is exquisitely apt. Thanks
     
  7. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    This light intensity is inversely proportional to distance, and squared - half the distance = four times the intensity.

    Yes, vandas can be grown under that fixture. I must ask about your "calculation..."

    Carl is correct about the "integration" concept. If you take a recommendation for a plant's light level - let's use 2500 fc as an example - it is the most it should get at noon on a clear, summer day. If you look at zero intensity at dawn, the peak at noon, and zero at dusk, the path resembles a triangle (green line below), and the area under it is Carl's integration. That area is one-half the base times height, so when using artificial light for the same duration, the intensity should be 1/2 times the peak (the blue line), or in this example, 1250 fc.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Being a very visual person, your graphs are helpful. I'm an old engineer accustomed to reading data that way. My "calulations" for this fixture went like this. (5000 lumens/lamp X 6 tubes) / 12 ft^2 (the area of my growing table = 2500 lumens/ft^2 = 2500 fc (I think). All nice and neat. But... I'm none too sure about the lumens ==> fc conversion, and even with a "reliable" number, it's still just a number. I have no clue what 2500 fc illumination really looks like.

    Rather than get all existential about it, let me see if I'm understanding all this fine advice properly. I get the feeling y'all are telling me that for my choices of Genus/Species this fixture shouldn't be a limiting factor. Does that sound about right?

    And again, thank you all so much.
     
  9. carl

    carl Active Member

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    Keep in mind that the inverse square law applies to point sources. A fluorescent lamp is not a point source, but closer to linear. So, for a linear source, the relationship would be closer to the integral of 1/distance^2, or just the reciprocal of distance. For a finite length illumination source, it's somewhere in between (you can get a reasonable approximation using a definite integral, I think). For six lamps, you'd have to solve that 6 times, using different distances. But definitely, inverse square doesn't apply to fluorescent lamps.

    Your supposition about choice of genus/species is pretty much on target. Some large, leafy orchids will make nice shade for the plants that need lesser amounts of light.
     
  10. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Oh Carl,

    Let me properly introduce myself. Since I am new here, it was my responsibility. Manners & all. I believe I did allude to my career as an engineer. That spanned the last 17 years of my working life as a systems analyst at NASA Ames Research Center. That followed a 28 year tenure as an RN. So I appreciate your "analytic" approach.

    I'm retired now. And for a reason.

    I'd pretty well disregarded any world not contained in the current definition of the observable universe as a matter of course in both careers. And then went through a bit of an epiphysis that left me a lot more open to the metaphysical implications of the hard science.

    So I found myself in need of a more organic experience. That's a big chunk of why I'm here. And that's why I so appreciate everybody's help.




     
  11. carl

    carl Active Member

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    Well, hopefully I didn't bring back bad memories. Once you mentioned engineer, I figured you'd have no objections to the math-y stuff.

    So, your lights are bright enough, use big leafy plants to shade small low-light plants. Just like the outside ;)
     
  12. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Carl,

    Please don't misunderstand. No bad memories at all! Simply stated, as comfortable as I am things like Lorentz tensor transformations, I find much more comfort in just giving these exceptional creature the best I can and watching them respond.

    Seriously, from what little I've seen so far, you don't grow orchids so much as you have a personal relationship. And I'm hooked.

    That epiphany event...? Let's just say I know what clinical death looks like from the inside. It's not something I want to talk much about. Just understand that there's more to global warming than unicorn farts.

    Have a great rest of your day.
     
  13. Steve Goodman

    Steve Goodman New Member

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  14. Steve Goodman

    Steve Goodman New Member

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    As you are using artificial lights and are concerned with what is the right amount of light for your collection, you might also want to consider controlling the humidity as well, especially if you are not growing orchids in a green house.
    I grow some rain forest orchids under light in my home, such as smaller masdavallias, bulbophylums and draculas. I have a few very small cool mist humidifiers (my 5' X3' growing area does not call for a more expensive investment) and a very small fan (for air movement) that keep the humidity, at least near the humidifiers, at or over 70%. I even have a timer that turns the humidifiers on and off every half hour to try to imitate passing clouds. Many orchids that sat there doing nothing but look back at me month after month have responded to the higher humidity by growing faster and throwing out flowers. Even non-rain forest orchids have responded to the higher humidity. Of course, if you are lucky enough to have a greenhouse the need for a higher humidity will take care of itself as you water the orchids.
    Have fun with this most intellectual hobby. It is very rewarding to bring an unusual orchid to flower.
     
  15. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Steve,

    So far, humidity hasn't been a issue for me. It hovers between 65-85% RH, most of the time > 70%. I'm running 2 small ultrasonic humidifiers. One is your garden variety drug store unit. The other is controlled by an internal hygrometer that I set for 80%. That unit automatically cycles on and off as needed to maintain the desired RH. So far, the only issue is the need to refill their reservoirs daily or more often.

    It get pretty dry around here in Summer, so I may need to revisit my humidification strategy then.
     
  16. Clusty

    Clusty Member

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    Not to hijack his post, I was always wondering about suggested photoperiods for artificially lit plants. Suggestions?
     
  17. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Hijack away... It's a good question.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Many folks go with about 12 hours in winter, 14 in summer.

    Personally, I have gone with 15 year-round, which is convenient with my schedule. I do, however, increase the plant-light distance a bit to decrease the intensity of the light a bit to compensate.
     
  19. Gregg Zollinger

    Gregg Zollinger Active Member

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    Great thread, I have learned a lot. I had to google "Lorentz tensor transformations". It gave me a headache so I stopped. :)
     
  20. bseltzer

    bseltzer Member

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    Well Lorenz tensors were about the peak of my math education, and they gave me headaches, serious headaches, as well. My mathematical adventures these days don't go beyond first order derivatives :) and then only when there's no other option. Meantime, my appreciation of living things has deepened and grown while other skills have been neglected. So here I am.