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Swamp cooler decision making

Discussion in 'Growing Areas' started by mrbreeze, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    Just wondering if anyone had any opinions before I take the plunge.

    My soon to be 'actual' greenhouse will be 8 x 16 x 8 with the roof going up to probably somwhere around 12-14'. When calculating the square footage to determine how much cooling I need I've been using ten or even twelve feet as the height. But it occurs to me that I won't need to be cooling anything above 8'.

    So if I use 8' it comes out to 1024 square feet. If I use 10 or 12 it rapidly approaches 2000 square feet.

    The coolers I've been looking at come in various sizes:
    variable speed 16" fan with a 42 gallon reservoir and rated to cool 1000 sq. ft.;
    variable speed 24" fan with 48 gallon reservoir and a cooling capacity of 2000 sq. ft;
    and I recently found one that has a single speed 36" fan with 2500 sq. ft cooling capacity but only a 32 gallon reservoir.

    Naturally to further complicate things the biggest one is actually the cheapest but has the smallest reservoir. And it is only one speed.

    So I'm wondering if i get that one, will i regret not having variable speeds and a bigger reservoir? And if I get the smallest one, will it be pushing my luck being so close to the overall gh size for cooling capacity? I guess the obvious choice is the middle one which gives me the 48 gallon reservoir AND variable speed, but it is (naturally) around $300 (or more) more expensive.

    Any input is appreciated.
     
  2. msaar

    msaar Member

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    You're back...
    First, the important number is the volume of your greenhouse, which will be about 1300-1500 cubic feet (cf). The swamp coolers you are quoting are rated for square feet (sf) of area of house. Forget the square foot rating. The heat gain for a greenhouse orders greater than a house. The swamp cooler number you are looking for is cfm (cubic feet per minute) of air flow. It should be at least equal to the volume of your greenhouse. The swamp cooler should be capable of being attached to a water supply and have a float valve to maintain the water level. Even if you are not able to have a permanent water installation, you may want to connect to your hose. That would render the volume of the reservoir less important. As a layout I would suggest installing the cooler in the north wall, and provide the exhaust opening high in the south end, either the wall or roof. And don't make the opening too small; it would be very easy to reduce the air flow of the cooler. If you could list the make and model number of the coolers, it would be easier to offer specific advice.
    Good luck.
     
  3. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    Thank you already!

    Here is a link to the medium sized one: http://www.port-a-cool.com/pacjs2400.html, it is rated at 7500 CFM.

    And here is the (similar) smaller one which is rated at 4000 CFM: http://www.port-a-cool.com/pacjs1600.html

    I believe they both have a hose connection although i'm unclear what keeps the water from causing problems from back pressure once the reservoir is full if the hose is on all the time. It will be situated outside the north wall with the outlet passing through the wall.
     
  4. msaar

    msaar Member

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    That is not the kind of cooler you need. They are not made for permanent installation and are likely not weatherproof. They are made for cooling football benches, etc. This is the type of cooler you would normally use for a permanent greenhouse installation: http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UBIEvRweQk8. That type uses a fiber media that usually is replaced annually (not terribly expensive, though). This type http://www.homedepot.com/Building-M...Id=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UBIFaBweQk8 uses rigid media like KoolCell, and based on my experience with a wet wall, will last 10 years or longer. Either type will require a water connection to keep the sump filled. Hope this helps.
     
  5. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Hey, MrB. Good to hear it is coming together. I wholeheartedly agree with msaar. You want a permanent installation. The ones I have used for years move around 5000 cmf and are 1/2 hp motor. I've always had a 2 speed motor. When I had a smaller gh, I used it on the lower speed. My current ones are Alpine brand but Champion makes the same thing (or somebody makes all of them and they just put different names on them). I would check out Sears or Home Depot. And again, don't believe the salesman.

    This is the type I have, though mine moves a bit more are. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...ads-_-pla-_-100150616&ci_gpa=pla#.UBIN2EQZxFQ.

    I would position it so that it blows along the length of the greenhouse. I build a short platform or 2x4" base for the cooler to sit on so it is just above the outside ground level of the greenhouse. You could use cement blocks to make a pad for it. If it is low enough, you can place it so that it blows under a bench or down the aisle.

    You will use 1/4" tubing to carry the water from the water line/hose bib. There are simple fittings designed just for this that have a shut off valve.

    Remember, the swamp cooler needs to be pulling in the air from outside. The ones I use have 3 sides with pads and they need to be clear of obstruction. There is a duct about 1 ft long that is going to come through the opening in the greenhouse wall.
     
  6. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    One main issue is i may not have a water connection. A plumber is supposed to come out tomorrow to evaluate the feasability of a dedicated water line. Problem is, the water line is at the front of the house and the greenhouse is at the back. There is no *good* way to get water to it. Whoever designed the infrastructure of my backyard was a complete moron.

    The ones you both linked to are about a third the price so I would definitely prefer that over the pro-cool models. But the reservoirs could be a big help with the lack of water line issue. Like I said, that will get reevaluated tomorrow and could change. I suppose for the cost of the pro-cools, I could get a water line routed all the way around the house if needed.

    And I wouldn't be too worried about the pro-cools not being permanent. Imagine them without the casters. Other than the radically different shape, there's no real difference. They're all just a fan, a tank, a pump, and a duct...right? I could cover it in the winter (and drain it of course), and shade it from direct sun. But...that aside, I do see what you're both saying. Of course the next problem would be finding one. I've already been to Home Depot and Lowes and they don't believe Oklahoma is dry enough to carry them. :rolleyes: (we were at 10% humidity last week)
     
  7. T. migratoris

    T. migratoris Active Member

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    While making your decisions I really, really think you should consider the other advantages to having dedicated water in the GH. Cooling is only one thing ... you'll need pressurized water to mix chemicals, mix fertilizers, wash down polycarb panels, wash crud off'n everything, feed a humidity system, etc. etc. You can't build a greenhouse for angraecoids in your area without a dedicated source of pressurized water, IMHO. If I had the frequent flyer miles available I'd come over & dig the pipeline trench myself. How's the GF with a shovel?
     
  8. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    I have a feeling she's going to swing a shovel if I don't stop focusing on greenhouses while ignoring wedding plans! ;)

    I've always believed in the need for dedicated water. It's just so damn difficult due to the logistics. But you've all pretty much convinced me to save a thousand bucks by *not* getting one of those port-a-cool units, spend that money on getting the water line put in, and then go to Grainger for a evap cooler like the ones linked above. Home Depot allegedly can't get them in any store (which i find hard to believe). Sears might be an option but Grainger's website claims to have some appropriate models in stock so it looks like my best hope for the moment.

    Anyone know anything about the brands Essick or Dayton?
     
  9. Reyna

    Reyna Orchid Obsessed Supporting Member

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    That made me chuckle out loud. :) (And congratulations by the way . . . )

    As for the water source, yes, I'd say you absolutely will want one. It may cost more to have a line run to the greenhouse, but you will want it. You may have to add some more cost, but if you don't do it now, I'd bet you will wish you had. :)
     
  10. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    1) Do not plan on relying solely on a reservoir for the cooling water. They are primarily there to provide the extra volume of water needed to keep the pump, internal tubing and pads "full". Not only that, but you'll be manually filling the things very frequently, so will never be able to go away for a weekend. You're absolutely going to have to have water for the greenhouse, so a saddle valve connection for the cooler will be no issue.

    2) Forget WW Grainger - unless you have lots of cash to burn. You can get the same or better products elsewhere without having to pay for their inventory costs. Dayton is their house brand for products usually manufactured by companies selling under their own brand names.

    Essic Air, who manufactures the Champion brand coolers, is supposed to be pretty good quality, can point you to a local vendor, or can ship. They even have a size calculator to help. http://trukalc.essickair.com/
     
  11. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Don't you have water in your house that could be tapped into? Do you have a hose bib in the backyard, side yard? Do you have a laundry room somewhere. You don't need a dedicated line, you just need water. I am assuming you are on city water and not a well. You can't run a greenhouse without pressurized water. Even if you use RO water and have a pump to pump it out of the holding tanks, you need pressurized water to produce RO. And anyhow, how are you going to get that water for the cooler you were looking at?
     
  12. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    Latest update: I will be assimilated, resistance is futile. ;)

    Apparently i can get a water line put in for less than $500 although it will have to be tied-in somewhere at the front of the house and a trench dug across the front, all the way down the side, into the back, and to the gh. But oh well, shouldn't be an issue.

    So my next question is, what size is the water connection for swamp coolers? I just went to Grainger and looked at one. Naturally they didn't have the ones in stock like you guys linked to and like i want, but it was similar. The dude actually pulled it off the rack with a forklift and opened up the box. Then we took off some panels and I could see the pump and fan and the tubes that direct the water to the pads. But we could NOT find where the water actually connects to the &*(^%$ thing! He even called his technical support guy and he didn't know either. I have to assume that connection is standard on just about all models, no? Is it a half inch connection? Quarter inch? Full size hose? If anyone knows or if any of you have the actual type like Mfaar and Marni linked, it would be a huge help to know that.

    And Ray, Grainger is pretty much my only hope due to time frames, logistics, and other factors. Home Depot claims they can't even get them shipped to their stores in the OKC metro. It could probably be shipped to my house but Grainger is only a couple miles away and the units I'm looking at are either $400 or around $600. So their prices don't seem too bad.

    One last thing (yea right!), what about 2800 CFM vs. 3800? I definitely want to go bigger than 'needed'. Every day next week is supposed to be at least 108 degrees, for example, so I want to oversize it to some extent. But based on my gh size either one will actually be oversized. So my question is, would it be worth the extra 1-200 bucks to get the 3800, or is the 2800 plenty big enough?

    again, thank you all soooo much for your help.
     
  13. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    It is 1/4" and I have both plastic and copper tubing. The water goes in the side, down low. If you look inside (take one of the side panels off) and look for the float valve a couple of inches from the bottom. It should have a little fitting on the outside that accepts a 1/4" tube. This will give you pictures" http://www.adventuresindiy.com/http...rovement/replacing-a-swamp-cooler-float-valve

    I would go bigger than 3800 cfm if that is a choice, but 2800 is going to be to small. Do they have high/low settings? These would be oversized for a room, but you aren't cooling a room.
     
  14. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Here is the type of shut off you will use to connect to the pipe. http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums...compression-valves-with-1-4-turn-angle-valves. It is the first one on the page. It is probably the same as the connection for the water line to an automatic ice maker. You want one for 1/4" tubing. That way you can shut off the water to the swamp cooler when you want to work on it or drain it for the winter (of course, where I live one doesn't drain them for the winter:cool:, no need).