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Virus? Hope not.

Discussion in 'Issues, Disease and Pests' started by KellyW, Jun 10, 2013.

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  1. Jun 10, 2013 #1
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I hope that this pattern is from too much sun or not enough nitrogen or iron but I don't have any experience with viruses. This plant is an Epigeneium treacherianum. The spots are not necrotic and tend to be on the apex half of the leaves affected. The spots are visible on both sides of the leaf. Not all leaves on the plant have this condition. Any ideas?
    1-800.jpg
     
  2. Jun 10, 2013 #2
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Have you sprayed anything lately?
     
  3. Jun 10, 2013 #3
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I use Bayer Rose and Flower which contains imidacloprid. I also spot treat with isopropyl alcohol 70%. That's it. I apply fertilizer with a Dosatron with most waterings at approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the recommended concentration.

    One thing I forgot to mention in the first post ... this plant just finished blooming and the flowers look perfect.
     
  4. Jun 10, 2013 #4
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Metaldehyde granules can cause bleaching on certain species that can look like that, but if you haven't used it, that's not it. It doesn't look completely random in that it seems to be close to lined up with the leaf. Virus doesn't always affect flowers or blooming in any way. If you are concerned, you might want to send it in for testing or purchase test strips from Agdia. That said, it isn't typical virus patterning.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2013 #5
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The ready-to-use(already pre-mixed) Bayer product should give you no problem. Rubbing alcohol is not a problem in general.

    Some fungicide will cause the problem if it is not mixed accordingly.

    Another thing, check on the insects.

    and IMO, it is not a typical viral symptom, but only a test can confirm if it is virus
     
  6. Jun 10, 2013 #6
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Thank you both. I'll be away for a few days and will follow up with a test or test strips when I get back. I know that viruses are not uncommon but if this is a virus it would be my first confirmed case. This isn't a rare or uncommon species but it is a nice plant.
     
  7. Jun 12, 2013 #7
    gnathaniel

    gnathaniel Lurker Supporting Member

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    Kelly, from your picture I'd guess either Mg or Fe deficiency. From what I've seen, viral chlorosis is usually more 'patterned' looking (follows leaf veins or shows up in clusters of cells that seem clearly defined from those around them), and often accompanied by tissue collapse or necrosis.

    BTW, sorry to take so long getting back to you! I'll PM you tonight or tomorrow.
     
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  8. Jun 12, 2013 #8
    lepetitmartien

    lepetitmartien Active Member

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    I'd explore the too much/too less of something in the diet.

    If you had a sudden change in lighting recently it can be it too and will disappear by itself in days/weeks.
     
  9. Jun 13, 2013 #9
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks everyone. I'm happy to hear the general consensus that it is not a virus. I'll look for a product with more micro-nutrients and see if that helps.
     
  10. Jun 14, 2013 #10
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Actually if you feed your plants regularly with even ordinary orchid fertilizer, nutrient deficiency very rarely happens and hardly just happens on one or two plants.

    Years ago, I saw yellow spots (similar to those on your plant) happened on my Rhynchostylis gigantea that I grew outside at that time), quickly those leaves with the yellow spots dropped off..., I had never figured that out but I suspect the problem was caused by insects in the yard plus secondary fugal/bacterial infection.
     
  11. Jun 14, 2013 #11
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Kelly, do you use RO water?
     
  12. Jun 14, 2013 #12
    Paul Mc

    Paul Mc Member

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    Interesting. I've seen those spots before and often wondered what it was. The leaves dropped and the problem was gone after that. Good to know for future reference!
     
  13. Jun 15, 2013 #13
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    No. The Redding water is low in minerals but I don't have a TDS number for it. Perhaps I need to find out what it is. The water is chlorinated and fluoridated and I don't filter that out. However, the water has not been an issue in the past 13 years.


    Thanks, Tom. The leaves don't show any signs of dropping yet. The spots are in such a linear formation that I would be surprised if it was insects unless single bites injected a fungal/bacterial infection that expressed in different locations along the veins. :confused:
     
  14. Jun 15, 2013 #14
    Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I was asking about RO, because if you are there is not nutrition and deficiencies are much more likely.

    This next has little to do with your issue, but it may be of interest. I never had trouble with chlorinated water when I was on city water, so I would suspect that is a problem either. It is worth checking your water from time to time as water supplies can change or blend water from different wells or sources at some times of the year. The pH of your water can have a dramatic effect on nutrient uptake and many water systems have raised the pH over the last 15 to 18 years. Mine used to be 6.2, but now is 8.4 and San Francisco is now above 9.0. If that is the case, there is less nutrient absorbtion going on for many things and depending on what they have used to change the pH it can be quite toxic to some orchids.
     
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  15. Jun 15, 2013 #15
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I agree the PH is important. In general, you want your water PH below 7, slightly on the acidic side.

    However, if this is the only plant having such a problem(nutrition deficiency), you might have to look for other explanation as well.
     
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  16. Jun 15, 2013 #16
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Marni and Tom, thanks for putting so much thought into this issue. I appreciate it.

    Wow, I will start looking for trends and see if that is an issue. Perhaps this species is just the first to show symptoms of the problem.
     
  17. Jun 16, 2013 #17
    lepetitmartien

    lepetitmartien Active Member

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    Whatever it is, it's systemic as the spots are aligned.

    Keep us in the loop ;)
     
  18. Jun 16, 2013 #18
    KellyW

    KellyW Orchid wonk Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Just another thought. These spots showed up on all divisions after I divided the plant. The fact that it showed up on all of the divisions was one of the factors that made me fear a virus. However, I always keep a concentrated solution of Physan 20 that I dip my shears in. When dividing plants I frequently dip my shears in the solution. Perhaps this species is particularly susceptible to Physan and there was enough injected into the plant during the dividing process to cause this condition.
     
  19. Jun 19, 2013 #19
    lepetitmartien

    lepetitmartien Active Member

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    I can't tell, quaternary ammonium is forbidden for such use in Europe so…

    Something appearing right after a division, for me, was around beforehand, and the weak condition of the young divisions did the trick. It's too fast to appear for a virus present on the tools and not killed by physan due to inattention. It's a condition waiting its hour.
     
  20. Jul 7, 2013 #20
    Tom-DE

    Tom-DE Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Are you using Physan 20 to sterilize your cutting tools? It is not effective for virus.
     
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