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Water tests

Discussion in 'Issues, Disease and Pests' started by Forrest, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Out of curiosity, what is your rate of discharge to product?

    I don't know where you buy your membranes, but I've been very happy with the prices at http://www.wateranywhere.com/. If you decide you want more output, they sell all of the stuff to easily add another membrane (or as many as you want).
     
  2. Jon

    Jon Mmmm... bulbophyllum...

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    I have no clue.
     
  3. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    It is a good thing to know. I've been told (by someone who's information I trust) that 2 parts discharge for 1 part product is about as low as you can go. If you shut it down to 1::1, the membrane doesn't last long at all. Do you have a valve on the discharge output line?
     
  4. Jon

    Jon Mmmm... bulbophyllum...

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    No valve on the discharge line, and I would bet my clean:dirty ratio is somewhere along the lines of 1:5. Max.
     
  5. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I've hear of people complaining about discharging 20 gallons for every one of product. Mine didn't come with a valve so I put one on. Every once in a while I check to see if it has changed, probably time to do that and change the prefilters. There goes my exponential to-do list.
     
  6. Jon

    Jon Mmmm... bulbophyllum...

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    What does the valve do for you? When you say "check to see if it has changed", what does that mean?
     
  7. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    That means that if the discharge comes out freely from the membrane without a valve reducing the amount that can pass, large amounts of water will not go through the membrane, but will take the path of least resistance (straight out the discharge line). That can be very high, friends have mentioned 20 gallons. I put a ball valve on the discharge line to restrict the flow so that there is more pressure to force water through the membrane. I measure the discharge and adjust the ball valve until I am dumping 2 (to 2.5) gallons for every 1 gallon I keep. So for every 1 gallon of RO I am paying for 3 gallons of tap water. Without that, I might be paying for 21 gallons of tape water (or paying to pump it up with a well). You can take two containers and run the RO line into one and the discharge line into the other and then time it or wait until one fills up and compare the volume.

    I will check to see if it has changed because I may have bumped the valve (a little thing on a 1/4" line) while doing something else in there and moved the valve. Shouldn't happen, but it does to me when I get in a slap-dash mood.
     
  8. Bob2741

    Bob2741 New Member

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    We have a rain tax Its really a fee grab but its caculated on the surface area. We have a virgin 28 acres of land my kids use it for hunting the property taxes are 377.90 year the rain tax is 670.00 every 3 months .

    Where we live is on 2.1 acres and the tax is 12.90 every 3 months Every body in this area has it if you own property you get thr rain tax

    Beware this is a Gov test program and is going to spread nationally as soon as we quit rasing hell so they can work out the problems. I for one at age 65 am not going to quit I m tired of all these hidden and stupid taxes that generate Millions of money for Gov to waste.
     
  9. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Most of the RO systems on the market have a pure:flush ratio of 1:4 (OK, the commercial-grade membranes I sell give you that, anyway).

    It seems to me that if it gets much above that, your prefilters aren't doing their jobs and the membrane is fouled.

    Incidentally, I can beat the prices at Marni's recommended store, and even include a new flow restriction at no additional charge (especially important if you're upgrading)!
     
  10. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I don't understand how the prefilters would have an effect on the output ratio. When I have waited to long to change prefilters and chlorine gets through, it destroys the membrane and allows unfiltered water to start passing through the membrane. If the filters get clogged, it drops the water pressure on the other side of the filters, but the membrane still work, but doesn't have as high an output.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    I did not mean the prefilters were clogged, Marni. That would simply slow down all water getting past them as you stated. I have seen people go to quite coarse sediment filters to get them cheaper, or not really install them correctly - i.e., not doing their jobs - so the sediment fouls the membrane, and the pure:flush ratio goes to hell in a handbasket.
     
  12. Aceetobe

    Aceetobe Member

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    DI has no flush water. Culligan should have rental units, but I'd make sure to put an inline PPM meter in place.

    Is the 25,000 gallons what you use, or what you water with? In any case, you'd cut your water usage by 66%.
     
  13. Forrest

    Forrest Really Neat

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    di really has no flush water? I didnt know that. My little filter does DI, but I have never used that functionality.
     
  14. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    The 25,000 is a rough estimate of what I use to water the orchids in the dry season, not what I am paying the water bill for. I don't really know much about DI, but have heard people who were less that happy with it. I didn't pay much attention to the specifics. I'd like to hear from people who have used DI. If you need an in-line PPM meter, what are the issues?
     
  15. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Anglican Supporting Member

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    I use DI to water the plants at work. I have Dends, hateful intergenerics, NOID phals, dirt plants, cacti, and succulents, mostly in windowsills. There is a lab on the 10th floor where i can get DI or even milipure waters. I haven't measured the TDS or asked about the purity. I just know its got to be better than the tap water. I have not noticed any problems with it at all.
     
  16. Aceetobe

    Aceetobe Member

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    DI works like this. There are two resins: one absorbs positively charged ions, the other absorbs negatively charged ions. Water comes through the beds, and leaves at 0 ppm. The pH is usually completely wacky, because there are no ions, but if you have a "pure water" fertilizer, then the pH isn't a problem. This is one of the problems that people have - they use regular fertilizer, and end up with a toxic pH for their plants. The other more damaging problem is one of equilibrium. The water will go from 0 ppm to higher ppm than your tap water (because the ions are now chemically favored to be in the tap water due to concentration).

    If you have an inline ppm, you can verify that the resin is still working.

    I have no clue about the prices that Culligan charges. They do commercial type operations, so can provide a large amount of water, and will "recharge" the resin.

    I have purchased a very small system used off craigslist that I can recharge myself - it is used for washing cars.
    Cr-spotless
    But for your purpose is virtually worthless, since it would amount to like 4 days worth of water.
     
  17. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the information. My RO water pH can swing widely. I do use fertilizer specifically for RO water, but it doesn't change problems with the pH. It is definitely worth more investigation.

    Forrest, Do you have an RO unit that also offers DI, or is it some other filtration system?
     
  18. Forrest

    Forrest Really Neat

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    mine offers both.
     
  19. Ray

    Ray Orchid Iconoclast Supporting Member

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    Be careful of Culligan: a customer of mine got an RO unit rated at 24 gpd from them. They wanted $93/month for 3 years.

    Fortunately, she was able to send it back during the 3-month trial period, and bought a 100 gpd unit with all sorts of extra stuff for under $225.
     
  20. Marni

    Marni Well-Known Member Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Forrest, is it an either/or or do they recommend using DI and then running it through the RO membrane?